Honda Insight hybrid to be cheaper, if dealers cooperate

this is were the big three should have been but because of the there union welfare they cant compete they never will they might as well start making soup cans or some thing easy to build but more then likely it would leak and need a recall what id like to see rather then crap over the taxpayer go back to the unions for the money

Fabulous !

I thought the price was going to be around $18000 as Honda officials previously announced so that american consumer can afford this car rather than paying high premiums for a hybrid like prius.You don't save any money by buying prius at current prices. If the price after shipping handling and taxes goes above $20,000 you are better off buying a civic or corolla at invoice prices because it will take about 7-8 years to break even and by that time you will definitely have something with much better technology much better than prius or insight.

Tankers of midnight oil? To get the price "down" to $20,000?

Hmmm.... I paid $21,600 out the door (that's with tax and tags) for my Civic Hybrid, 18 months ago. That last sixteen hundred bucks must have been tough, huh?

wtobias: the problem with the big 3 has nothing to do with the unions, but their corporate management! They were greedy in pursuing the profits to be found in the big SUVs at the cost to other smaller and more fuel efficient vehicles. Ford should have a good vehicle in their fusion hybrid coming soon, hopefully...

WTobias, before you mouth off, you need to be working in a non-union sweatshot, with no medical insurance or benefits and in a chronic race for the bottom of the wage stack, as did my grandfather. Then you'll be qualified to have an opinion. Until then, you're only venting neo-con sewage.

I agree with USConsumer. Americans are always trying to keep up with what is popular. Some people think that by driving a hybrid, like the Prius, that they are putting off an image of some sorts. What that image is, i don't really know...but it's something like this, I can afford your luxo-gas guzzler, but I choose to be "environmentally friendly" and drive this little odd looking car so I can spend what I save at the pump on more Starbucks and other worthless crap I don't need. Buy a three or four year old Corolla, get and average of 34 mpg and wait untill the EV technology hits the market, hybrid is not the future, EV is.

I would guess the unions contributed the problem as did management.

Howdy folks, so where's the "pick me up" in these comments ? Am I to learn about all the blessings that come with hybrid cars and energy-mix solutions to save some bucks on gas as the motor's food...
(Recently read about the doubled gas prices abroad.)
Years ago I stopped ordering the XXL-Coke and all that menu add-ons and instead am feeding my car (what would've been my horse some hundreds years ago) to keep me going and relying on that iron as my true friend in good times and good times gone bad. So, what's all the hustle about?
I mean a Ford is a Ford and it's no overaged used-cars seller but more presidential than any aerodynamic teardrop-appearance of low-price hybrid in such enlighting colours like grey-silver-metallic or invisibly-anthracite could ever be.
Caught in the act drivin around in such a "gas-spare-racer" like that Honda instead of some shining Buick or Caddy is in my opinion almost as humiliating as when somebody stuck a banana in my pants and turned the monkey loose.
(Recently read about NY city intending to replace that proven work-horse Crown Victoria-Ford by some type I do not even remember its name.)
Some weeks ago I really enjoyed to drive through the desert of Nevada sittin within some golden Ford Fusion (it was an automatic) from Sin City to blessed L.A. and of course back to Los Vegas to have some more fun the same day. And let me just tell you bout my experience:
- I loved listening to Highway Rock (surround sound).
- I loved sitting on the broad and comfortable leather seat
- I thought: "TYG for the air-condition." (a dozen times)
- By drivin in a very sensible and careful way I was able to save up to 25% of gas, but meanwhile enjoying a ride in a livin-room seat... using these dollars on feeding the slots afterwards.
I will cling to my way of life and
to travelling comfortably and savely through the desert and back again. And I don't wanna be left behind while saving some bucks on gas (meaning water for my horse).
Jango Leno, Los Angeles, CA

My parents bought a Civic Hybrid for MSRP in June, in the Midwest when waiting lists were months long.

As for these defenders of the union angels, there are none. UWA workers are people, as good and as bad as everyone else. But before feeling sorry for them remember that throughout the late seventies and eighties Detroit continually laid them off as they shut down plants. Then in the nineties, when SUV sales were booming and 70+ hour work weeks and $100K annual earnings were common what did the UAW negotiate for? Plowing the record profits back into R&D? Trying to recapture the middle of the market that the Japanese owned? No. Some people never learn.

You can blame management, but they were granting themselves stock options and raking in enough money to live out life comfortably after they were fired for incompetence. They had their long-term planned for, but the union ignored the long-term for the short-term and now they are being laid off again and the overtime, and the monster paycheck, is gone.

I agree that the Detroit automakers management and UAW both share the blame for the downfall. The amount of the share may differ based on one's viewpoint. In my experience U Ain't Working ( UAW ) is a major contributor. I was working on test equipment at a Delphi facility one Saturday. UAW mechanics had to do the resassembly and then I could test and verify system operation. At 12:00 pm it was quitting time for the union, even though there was only 1/2 hour of work remaining. It was better to quit for the day and return on Sunday. Oh, Sunday is double time with a 4 hour minimum. 1/2 hour of wok = 8 hours pay.

The last car we bought was a Honda Civic Hybrid, early last year. Very happy with it. None of the problems seen with our previous GM vehicles.

hybrid schmybrid..
I am driving a 1997 VW diesel w/ 264,000 miles and still getting 50 or better mpg. Also, we are using AmeriGreen biodiesel and the car now has an minimal carbon foot print yet retaining high mpg. These cars have incredible torque, quick accelleration and carry 4-5 adults comfortably. I can not imagine owning another type vehicle.

TO foxy:

Diesel only works because there aren't that many diesel vehicles in the US. But the moment diesel catches on, it is susceptible to the same market forces for commodities (the biomass used to generate bio-diesel) and plant oil in general. The unintended outcome to everyone moving to diesel is the deforestation of habitats to make way for bio-crops. It's already occurring along the equatorial regions of the world. And the ultimate result is greenwashing - the net result is hardly carbon-neutral.

Hybrids are just one step of the process to get to near-clean electric cars - electricity can be clean, given the right incentives and investment.

And Honda dealers STILL screw the widows and widowers, with undercoats and clear coats - NEITHER of which are of any benefit, except to the Dealers' profit. NEVER, let a person go alone into the Finance Dept, or ANY Dept, at ANY car dealer - you may as well toss a baby into a cage of starving pit bulls.

Tom Barclay :

If people didn't buy Priuses, then companies wouldn't make them. More than looking cool, green people know that spending more will make big companies pay attention to them. You are the one who is image concious.

Personally, $20,000 is not a "cheaper" price-tag. If they made them in the price range of the Fit or the Yaris, I think more consumers would make the switch over to Hybrid. As it stands now, most entry-level consumers and young people generally cannot afford a car at this cheaper rate. Maybe, Honda should make the car smaller to cut the cost of the technology. No matter what, 20 grand is still way too expensive. Especially considering most people are skeptical about the mechanical cost of repairs involved with the new technology.... and the fact that people are just afraid to buy things right now. HELLO, ECONOMIC RECESSION.

Folks...when those Prius batteries tap out will it really all be worth it - financially or greenwise? I drive American iron and have always been content with it - good mileage, low prices for repairs and parts, safe, comfortable and economical...test drove a smart car two days ago....my body is still vibrating...as far as intelligence goes about vehicles I was at a gas station the other day and a guy was leaning against his Toyota truck and said to me (I am not kidding here) "The problem with Americans is that they buy too much foreign stuff".....DUH!!!

You mean that isn't a Prius?? It looks like Hionda reverse engineered a Prius and put their badge on it.

Why can't a car that gets Prius like mileage actually look good? These things are like used bars of soap.

Am I supposed to be impressed with 45 MPG?

If dealers pose a potential problem with market entry, then don't use the dealers. Sell it direct off the web for example, using car rental firms such as Enterprise to provide your demo services for you.

Time to move to a new retail model here.

*Unlike the Prius, the Insight does not move under electric power alone.*

This is incorrect as the Prius will move by either the electric motor or the gasoline engine. And the new Prius models (2009) will be plug-ins.

Simple if you want Hybrid stick with Toyota, they are on second generation technology the others are using Toyota's old technology leased to them.

Honda is behind Toyota in this market, and ford and Chevy hybrids are a joke. Really who is gonna pay 10K more for a hybrid Yukon or Tahoe when the mileage is still terrible and the quality is bottom of the barrel?

I left US cars this year and have never been happier!

"Time to move to a new retail model here."

Sure. You can always send your car to the web to get it serviced.

I drove a toyota prius for 9 days. I drove it to get the worst mileage possible, petal to the metal uphill and quick starts. I got 45MPG. worst case!!! I just wanted to show all of those prius drivers that are all blocking the roads that their car can move... Get out of the way!! The prius is still a to ugly car.

"Sure. You can always send your car to the web to get it serviced."

As if dealers - and I mean for any brand - provide such excellent service. (Rarely in California at any rate.)

Honda has the opportunity to start something new here. That might also include using thier own deep pockets to establish Honda owned service centers where the cars might be serviced right without corner cutting. In addition, corp. would receive direct feedback re reliability issues, aftermarket modifications, and such. Finally, via loaners,service customers would be allowed to test drive - and perhaps consider buying - a newer car for themselves.

This is much the same as takes place in Japan, where the car stores ARE company owned, and the emphasis is very much on doing whatever it takes to keep the customer a customer for life.

As I said before: time to change an outworn marketing model.

Am I supposed to be impressed with 45 MPG?

It's really not that impressive considering that it has a very small engine og 1.3 liters

Unions aren't the problem of the big three - Japanese labor is more expensive than even union wages.

The big three suffer because they put all their eggs in the petroleum basket.

The Japanese produced the big huge SUV's too - but they had this play in their back pocket.

The big three think they can scream and shout their way out of bankruptcy.

Honda tries to rein in its dealers? Since what era? Since the 80's, Honda dealers have lead the charge in egregious add ons. Of course, Honda was implicated in the allocation scandal when it stuck dealers with essentially unsaleable cars unless the dealers paid kickbacks.

On another note, GM struggles mightily, and brings forth the Volt. Promised at $30k, due to be delivered at $40k. Looks like any other GM car you rent from enterprise. Way to go GM. Don't close your eyes when you swing at the ball.

We get 43 mpg on our Civic Hybrid driving it like maniacs.... that is, like everybody else on the freeway.

It doesn't stick out like hybrid - well it does have HOV stickers- with none of the "look at me". It has NAVI and auto temp control and it handles like a CIvic with hard tires... which is to say it leaves Toyotas in the dust when the road t turns curvy.

So the bottom line is that I don;t buy the PR that only "full hybrids" and :"plug in" hybrids are "true" hybrids. That's hogwash, and besides Synergy is an expensive way to achieve mileage. 45mpg -in a clean gasoline powered car- when doing 80mph with three people on board, and in comfort, is impressive.

Love looking at comments. One guy is not impressed with 45mpg. What does he get? What a joke. I would love to get 45mpg. I will definetly buy a Honda Insight in the spring. It may take 2-4 years to pay back the extra cost of the $20,000 over a Honda Fit but it WILL pay back. Plus, I am not a tree hugger. I am retired. I am on a fixed income. Gas will get more expensive. Why have a car that gets poor mileage? With 45mpg I will have more disposable income for other things, like playing golf or any other activities.

Interesting comments. One guy is not impressed with 45mpg. What a joke. What does he get? Some people may buy the Insight because gas is expensive and they want to spend their money on other things. Payback may take 2-4 years but it WILL PAYBACK.

I get 60 mpg with my Prius. I also get 32 mpg with my wife's CRV but she gets 25 mpg. If you drive 62-65 MPH on the highway and accelerate slowly you will improve your gas mileage by at least 20%.

If we ever enforce the 65 MPH speed limit and reduce the number of big SUVs on the roads to half we won't need to import any oil from the MidEast.

For a time people slowed down when gas was $4.30, now I notice they are going 80+ MPH on the highway again.

Honda has more environmental cred than any other auto company out there. Yes Toyota has Prius, but if you think their Prius offsets all of the trucks and SUVs they got on the road then you're mistaken. Honda is doing what they've always done...make small fuel efficient cars. Just now it's a hybrid. If only more of these fat auto company executives would think and act like Honda!

Its greed and the men who drive it... who is killing the technology to save the Earth...not the lack of technology

Unions are to blame? please...
i would venture to guess that the standard of living is a lot higher in japan and germany than the USA for people working the same jobs at auto plants, what with generous healthcare plans etc. and all.
The people that blame the unions for a lack of competitive products from the big three dont seem to recognize that ford and gm (im not so much a chrysler fan..) make excellent cars OUTSIDE the US. But when it comes to the US domestic market these automakers choose not to improve the quality of the cars offered (we've been sold the same generation focus platform for a decade while the UK gets the newest version), and do things like sell the same car under 4 different brand names and waste a lot of money in the process. Mismanagement and bad strategy in a changing domestic economy is what landed the big three where they are now. Not the Unions.

anyone seen info about the Italian Fiat coming to the USA?
It's supposed to get a lot of MPGs
I was told by someone in the car biz that the cost of an electric battery does not make up fir fuel savings.
My nissan altima I'm sticking with. I hope by 2010, the newer car choices will make sense. I hope GM goes down, they dont deserve a bailout Period!